tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post1448334219971570797..comments2023-09-16T07:19:15.347-05:00Comments on The anti-drugwar czar: The Catch-22 of Drug Law Reformanti-drugwar czarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-45442233936693652092009-01-14T09:20:00.000-05:002009-01-14T09:20:00.000-05:00@Anonymous re. impaired drivingYou consider us wor...@Anonymous re. impaired driving<BR/><BR/>You consider us worse than Freddy Krueger, presumably because you have this wild, irrational fear that if pot was legalized you'd observe an explosion not only in use but in car accidents (and planes and space shuttles and we al remember the ugly driving in Star Trek: Nemesis...).<BR/><BR/>This expectation is not supported by actual facts. Holland has had de facto legalized marijuana since 1976. They have fewer users than the European average and a whole lot fewer than in the USA. Holland had no explosion in either use, abuse or impaired driving. Dutch people smoke less than Americans - which incidentally doesn't argue very well for your wish to maintain Prohibition. <BR/><BR/>In relation to the topic of the post you clearly illustrate how biased the discussion about drugs is.<BR/><BR/>Driving while drunk is already prohibited, because the combination of drinking and driving is bad, but alcohol in itself is not illegal.<BR/><BR/>Yet with characteristic zeal you speak of pot in a way that makes it stand out as "something special", as something that should be treated totally different than other things.<BR/><BR/>That's why you end up using one standard for pot while using another for alcohol. I'm fairly sure you don't think of yourself as Worse than Freddy Krueger, because you support legal alcohol.<BR/><BR/>If you weren't such a cop, and if all those smoking pot weren't such cowards (yet who can blame them?) you would have quite a few friends who actually smoke pot or who has tried it without ever causing trouble or getting into it. Face it, due to job (or blind belief in those patrolling the roads) you have access to only a small, incomplete picture of the whole, hence you are biased.<BR/><BR/>What's worse is that your black'n'white medieval model is being used to cast anyone using those specific drugs as the Absolute Evil, and as such you firmly believe that you can suspend all normal consideration for those people, the Constitutional Rights and any other moral obligation you normally feel towards your fellow human being.<BR/><BR/>So in your zeal to do away with the potheads and druggies you not only become an evil greater than those your fight, but right there ... you LIKE IT!<BR/><BR/>Well, I guess it's off to the gas chambers. And btw, I always wanted to say this in an internet discussion:<BR/><BR/>You, Sir, are worse than Hitler! :P<BR/><BR/>That said I would really recommend you lay down that badge and try to get to know some of the many people who smoke pot. Talk with them, and not just AT them like you're used to. They're no different than your average Joe who like a beer and a drink once in a while.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14488309709769416658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-20404653065351390012007-12-31T11:09:00.000-05:002007-12-31T11:09:00.000-05:00HI anonymous,Obviously you are wrong -- I do allow...HI anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Obviously you are wrong -- I <B>do</B> allow all posts that aren't spam.<BR/><BR/>You say "marijuana-impaired driving can be tragic" -- so? Driving can be tragic -- and hell, since you obviously aren't paying attention, it may surprise you to learn that <B>life itself is tragic</B>. It always ends in death. Oops.<BR/><BR/>Marijuana itself is involved in an extremely small number of deaths -- and the vast majority of users do not suffer (nor inflict) any consequences on either themselves or others.<BR/><BR/>So learn a little -- it will help you avoid looking like an uneducated drooling fool.<BR/><BR/>P.S. it's Freddy "Kreuger," ya dumbass!<BR/><BR/>Bye.<BR/><BR/>Banti-drugwar czarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-54546105401325843602007-12-31T00:05:00.000-05:002007-12-31T00:05:00.000-05:00You'll probably not post the lastYour singing to t...You'll probably not post the last<BR/>Your singing to the potcreep choir.<BR/>You people are worse than freddie croogerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-70548910426698976192007-12-31T00:03:00.000-05:002007-12-31T00:03:00.000-05:00No Deaths attributed to Marijuana-Tell These 4 Chi...No Deaths attributed to Marijuana-Tell These 4 Children's Parents Potcreeps<BR/><BR/>Those who patrol streets and highways, know that the consequences of marijuana-impaired driving can be tragic. For example, four children and their van driver-nicknamed Smokey by the children for his regular marijuana smoking-died in April 2002 when a Tippy Toes Learning Academy van veered off a freeway and hit a concrete bridge abutment. He was found at the crash scene with marijuana in his pocket.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-19358017809092474492007-07-26T23:46:00.000-05:002007-07-26T23:46:00.000-05:00hi jill,thanks for the kind thoughts. i certainly ...hi jill,<BR/><BR/>thanks for the kind thoughts. i certainly think it wise to support ron paul since he is bringing a bit of sanity to the table, but i don't believe he is our only chance. both he and dennis kucinich have the guts to say what needs to be said, but the political climate is not exactly favorable at the moment to those who express truth and sanity.<BR/><BR/>we have another election cycle before us in which puppets posing as leaders will win the nominations for their respective parties, one of whom will emerge victorious next november. it sucks, but that's the way it is at the moment.<BR/><BR/>i believe that what we need to focus on in the near term -- i would argue our true hope -- is to get our fellow americans to start paying attention and get them to understand that our most cherished values are rapidly being squashed out of our society in the name of phantom enemies.<BR/><BR/>we need to make it "safe" for politicians to stand up and do the right thing -- they will only do that when we demand it of them and it can be seen as politically expedient.<BR/><BR/>so i suggest to everyone and anyone who wants to put an end to this nightmare that we focus our attention on the public at large. once we have sufficient numbers of them on our side, then we will have a chance to get the political animals lined up to do the right thing.<BR/><BR/>we need to act like "Americans" -- now more than ever.<BR/><BR/>banti-drugwar czarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-29134819695353096312007-07-26T12:11:00.000-05:002007-07-26T12:11:00.000-05:00Great blog- I enjoyed reading all you have to say....Great blog- I enjoyed reading all you have to say. You are right on. Our only chance right now is RON PAUL. Please people give him your support. He realizes what a ridiculous waste the 'War on Drugs' is.Jillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10468553663656464092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-86259190115680043312007-07-20T14:34:00.000-05:002007-07-20T14:34:00.000-05:00oops, i forgot something you ought to find useful ...oops, i forgot something you ought to find useful since you only give a shit about pot: <BR/><BR/>http://www.briancbennett.com/print/notscary.pdf<BR/><BR/>it's a tri-fold brochure that makes the case for pot rather well -- covers all the angles, has quotes from the "drug czar" juxtaposed against graphics that clearly show he's full of shit, lays out all the source information for the acedemically inclined, and makes it really, really easy to see how minuscule a "problem" pot use actually is.<BR/><BR/>it was inspired by the work i did when i built this page: http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/nutshell-marijuana.htm<BR/><BR/>print it out and mail it to people who send you business reply envelopes -- it's a great way to take it to people who otherwise don't care and would never find out about any of it.<BR/><BR/>banti-drugwar czarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-18262430652816001842007-07-20T11:21:00.000-05:002007-07-20T11:21:00.000-05:00hey josh, thanks for the laugh. seriously, i almo...hey josh, thanks for the laugh. seriously, i almost spit my coffee all over the place!<BR/><BR/>here's my homepage:<BR/><BR/>http://www.briancbennett.com<BR/><BR/>here's the sitemap:<BR/><BR/>http://www.briancbennett.com/pagelist.htm<BR/><BR/>here's what people say about my work:<BR/><BR/>http://www.briancbennett.com/comments.htm<BR/><BR/>how much more can i do for you?<BR/><BR/>banti-drugwar czarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-81791002646026412092007-07-20T11:10:00.000-05:002007-07-20T11:10:00.000-05:00I never said they are afraid of anyone's afraid of...I never said they are afraid of anyone's afraid of you, it's just disappointing to see someone with your potential wasting all your time accomplishing NOTHING on this little blogspot. <BR/>"we need to pull together"<BR/><BR/>Take a look at yourself and what you're doing, and it's very apparent that your trying to push people AWAY from each other. <BR/><BR/>Just because there are hundreds (or thousands) of small groups out there fighting for this movement, doesn't mean they're trying to trash each other as you are doing.<BR/><BR/>You can't even respond to the facts I present about how MPP is raising hundreds of thousands of dollars, while you waste your (and everyone else including myself who bothers to put their 2 cents in) so called anti drug war rants helping NOTHING! You are not helping the fight against the drug war, no matter what you ego tells you. <BR/><BR/>First you say in your blog that it's because there isn't enough support/money that we're losing, (which I said was correct), but when I point out that the orgs you are bashing are raising all this money (and you're working against that), you then make a claim like this, <BR/><BR/> "we are getting our asses kicked in large part because there are too many little groups out there each acting in their own self-interest."<BR/><BR/>Again I ask you, what good are you doing with this blog??<BR/>Are YOU raising any money for this fight? Or are you just fighting against the very thing you claim to be supporting?? <BR/>From what I see, it's the latter. <BR/><BR/>All I'm saying is, you are not helping whatsoever by making the outlandish accusations you have. <BR/>If you would quit focusing on what you perceive to be wrong with these orgs, and focus on, <BR/> <BR/> ". . ending the practice of tyranny against our citizens."<BR/><BR/>It would do a helluva lot more good. I work my ass off trying to end the misconceptions, tyrrany, police state, etc etc, but it really irks me when someone claims to be doing the same, but then proceeds to attempt to discredit orgs that are doing the real work and heavy lifting, i.e. working with the govt to change the laws. <BR/>If you think that by trying to convince people to not give money to the legalization orgs, that you are helping things, you've got a very twisted sense of logic. <BR/><BR/>First you say it's because there isn't enough money. When I point out that the orgs are raising real money, (but still thousands of times less than the govt spends) and people like you are actually working to lessen the fundraising ability, then you change your tune about what why we're losing??<BR/><BR/>As I said at the beginning, these orgs are not afraid of you, and why should they be? You've got a little blog, with comments from several dozen people, including a few who question your motives. <BR/><BR/>The reason that we're focused on marijuana is that the bulk of drug arrests are perpetrated on it's users. If we tried to focus on everything at once we'd be even further behind. <BR/><BR/>But, it would be nice to have people like you, with knowledge of the basic ideas, to actually help move us forward instead bitching, moaning, and complaining about how much better you could do it, and how you're pissed that you can't have a party at the playboy manision or whatever you're pissed about. Quit pointing fingers/blame and do something more constructive with your time and your blog.<BR/><BR/>Josh<BR/>Texas NORMLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-91000774974532479092007-07-20T08:34:00.000-05:002007-07-20T08:34:00.000-05:00hi josh,thanks for your comments -- i really appre...hi josh,<BR/><BR/>thanks for your comments -- i really appreciate the time and effort you took to respond.<BR/><BR/>i'm getting tired of pointing out how the "progress" we're being told we are making is an illusion. back in 1974 there were 24 states with medical marijauan laws -- now there are 12. how do you measure "success?" sounds like you measure it the same way as the turds claiming that the latest big bust is "clear evidence that the war on drugs is working."<BR/><BR/>worse, if NORML had been effective at all, then why in the world does MPP even exist? even worse than that -- do you realize how FEW people (incredibly enough, even pot smokers) even know what NORML is?<BR/><BR/>now for the fun part: you accuse me of trying to "splinter the movement" -- what a laugh! there are hundreds of organizations out there josh -- i had nothing to do with splintering anything. <BR/><BR/>seriously, if you think that i'm powerful enough to <B>splinter</B> an already broken "movement" then i'll have to take that as a compliment -- it must mean that i'm powerful enough to do the job that actually needs to be done: pulling everyone together in the same direction towad the one goal that matters -- end the fucking war. <BR/><BR/>so my advice to you is to first recognize that we are getting our asses kicked in large part <B>because</B> there are too many little groups out there each acting in their own self-interest. <BR/><BR/>second, to understand that this isn't actually about drugs, and that the vast majority of people don't give a shit about potheads; and third to hold the feet of those who call themselves "leaders" to the fire until they figure out that they are the ones splintering the "movement" (it isn't really much of a movement if you are paying attention); and third to demand that these "leaders" observe the dictum to "lead, follow or get the fuck out of the way."<BR/><BR/>so, josh, stop accusing me of working against the movement and try to start working on the movement that matters: ending the practice of tyranny against our citizens.<BR/><BR/>or are you just one of the people out there who only gives a shit about pot and will gladly pile on the tweakers, crackheads and junkies after you get what you want?<BR/><BR/>if you want there to be a movement you need to first stop pretending that i'm the one who splintered everything -- i'm the one demanding we all pull together. and not for one little stupid "cause" that benefits hardly anyone -- but to the only cause that really matters: ending the fucking WAR being waged against our own goddam citizens over how they play with themselves!<BR/><BR/>and that my friend is all i have to say about it. so you go tell your pals in norml and mpp to get their shit together and try working together -- 'cause i will not stop calling attention to the failures being pawned off as "success" -- from either side of the debate.<BR/><BR/>tell them to keep reading the rant below titled <A HREF="http://antidrugwarczar.blogspot.com/2007/02/face-it-youre-legalizer.html" REL="nofollow">face it, you're a legalizer</A> until it sinks in. they clearly need to attend drugwar rehab.<BR/><BR/>and thanks for letting me know that they really are afraid of me. i'm not here to play patty-cake: i'm here to win a war.<BR/><BR/>banti-drugwar czarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-47426087986037796692007-07-19T22:46:00.000-05:002007-07-19T22:46:00.000-05:00Hey, please disclaimer that I messed up the number...Hey, please disclaimer that I messed up the numbers on some of that other comment I left, if you decide to post it. It should have been all 300 MILLION, and everyone would have to pay 33-34 cents. OOPS!<BR/><BR/>TX NORMLUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00368241565657856060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-2121959587403615772007-07-19T20:49:00.000-05:002007-07-19T20:49:00.000-05:00The beginning of the Catch-22 blog hits the nail o...The beginning of the Catch-22 blog hits the nail on the head with several points. <BR/><BR/> ". . the money that is available is quite limited, and in no case will ever be likely to number in the tens of billions of dollars spent annually by our government to continue waging the war itself."<BR/><BR/>ONDCP alone, according to their website, spent $12.6 BILLION. <BR/><BR/> "Clearly, the citizens have no prayer of ever out-gunning the government, and the vast majority of drug reformers are actually un-paid volunteers."<BR/><BR/>The sad part about this statement is that the citizens are largely funding the govt's astronomical budget for the "war on drugs."<BR/>And yes the vast majority of drug reformers ARE actually un-paid volunteers. And how can "un-paid volunteers" contribute monetarily to this cause, as is badly needed?<BR/>And you're very correct to point out that marijuana users,<BR/><BR/> ". . who do step forward risk losing everything they have in life as their reward for doing so at the moment. Of course, by not stepping forward and allowing the situation to deteriorate at an ever accelerating rate, it is increasingly likely that every marijuana user will one day be caught . . "<BR/><BR/>But, I can't believe you at once proclaim that, <BR/><BR/>"If enough people cared, then certainly more money could be available. Clearly, then, we need to get more people to care about the drug war and then become pissed off enough to help do something about it."<BR/><BR/>Then, you turn around and claim MPP has had all kinds of playboy parties and done nothing??<BR/>According to MPP, the 2007 Playboy Mansion Party was the 2nd party there. And they did the second Playboy party because the first one raised $170,000!! The 2007 Playboy Party cashed in $150,000!! This is a one day event. <BR/>So, in order for MPP to raise $10 BILLION, (in order to even up the playing field with the feds) that would theoretically take 62,500 Playboy parties!!<BR/>Or, every single person in the United States (estimated to be around 300 BILLION) could give 3 or 4 cents!! <BR/>BUT WAIT!!!<BR/>That 3-4 cents is already going to ONDCP!!<BR/>You say patting each other on the back is counterproductive??<BR/>How do you think that organizations help keep their morale up??<BR/>Oh yeah, by blogging.<BR/><BR/>By the way, without the playboy party, MPP would need 2857 George Soros type contributors to raise a measly (by ONDCP's standards) $10 BILLION!!!!!!<BR/><BR/>And when Taylor points out that MPP has had a hand in SEVERAL states passing medical marijuana laws, you just blow that off as no progress. <BR/>You, of all people, should know what kind of time, effort, AND money it takes to pass new laws, such as a medical marijuana law (much less an all-out decriminalization bill). <BR/><BR/>I personally went to the capitol in Austin, TX, and gave testimony in favor of a decrim bill this year. A freaking SHERRIFF gave testimony in SUPPORT of this decriminalization bill for gods' sake!!! And you know what happened to the bill?? It didn't even get a vote in the committee it was assigned to. <BR/>Now, this "lobby day" was an all-day affair. I had to take off work for an entire day, and like you said, <BR/><BR/> "the vast majority of drug reformers are actually un-paid volunteers."<BR/><BR/>As am I.<BR/>NORML did not, and does not, pay me anything. I raise awareness, interest, and yes money; for NORML.<BR/>Now, you can look up National NORML's budget online, as they are filed w/ the govt at a non-profit org. And NORML doesn't have a Soros. All we have are people like me and my friends/volunteers. Yes, there are salaries paid by NORML to some of the directors etc. But how do you expect people who work FULL TIME (I work 20-40 hrs/week with NORML) for an org (any org), to make a living?? <BR/>You said it yourself, it takes money to move the "movement" forward, but it also takes money to live your life in our society. <BR/><BR/>What I want to know is this:<BR/><BR/>What do you think you're accomplishing by attacking the legalization orgs, other than splintering the very movement we all are working for?<BR/><BR/>Do you really think that bashing the biggest, best known, legalization orgs will actually help the legalization movement??<BR/><BR/>Not everyone is gonna be happy with what MPP, NORML, DPA, or ASA (or anyone else for that matter)are doing. But the fact remains that it's not surprising that we're losing when you consider the government spends literally TENS OF THOUSANDS times what we as a group spend. <BR/><BR/>And the fact is, if you claim that the $340,000 raised for the movement in 2 days by MPP at the playboy mansion is nothing/worthless, then you better eat your entire insinuation that money makes a difference. <BR/><BR/>And if you think that you can do better than MPP, you better be able to raise $340,000 in 2 days, from somewhere legal. <BR/><BR/>That's all I have to say on this, <BR/>Please come back to the movement, and quit working against it!!<BR/><BR/>Josh S.<BR/>Director, Texas NORML<BR/>http://www.texasnorml.org/<BR/>http://www.myspace.com/texasnormlUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00368241565657856060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-39578988160750671852007-07-19T13:37:00.000-05:002007-07-19T13:37:00.000-05:00My husband is a grass roots person who has "Come o...My husband is a grass roots person who has "Come out of the Closet" at his own peril to spread the truth about this malicious and destructive drug war and the lies our government spreads about marijuana users. Here's a link to his website and myspace page<BR/><BR/>kopproductions.com<BR/><BR/>http://kopproductions.com/main.html<BR/><BR/>http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=15317662&MyToken=f89e2dd4-f5b9-4a3e-9af3-2692d9821d41<BR/>KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK YOU ARE DOING, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-59763984068305674762007-07-19T11:16:00.000-05:002007-07-19T11:16:00.000-05:00Wow!first, i'd like to thank all of you for taking...Wow!<BR/><BR/>first, i'd like to thank all of you for taking the time to share your thoughts and horror stories. i'm glad to hear that i'm not alone and to have all of you validate what i've spent so much time and effort trying to do.<BR/><BR/>we have a tremendous task before us and it's clear that we are in agreement that the self-proclaimed "leaders" are a bunch of useless jackasses who have succeeded only in creating job security and a retirement plan for themselves. or perhaps not ;^)<BR/><BR/>as several of you have pointed out, bureacracy is a paralyzing force, not an energizing one, and i am doing my best to help provide the energized people with the kinds of ammo they need to really get this job done.<BR/><BR/>we don't need to keep adding more layers of non-profit organizations to the pile, and we don't really need much money to accomplish a great deal. what we need is a game plan, some real leadership, and the dedicated efforts of people like you folks.<BR/><BR/>i'll continue doing my best to deliver what we need, and i know i can count on you to help. i invite all of you to email me (b2@briancbennett.com) so i can keep you informed about what i'm working on.<BR/><BR/>to the federal medical marijuana patient: i truly am honored by your taking the time to come to my little sandbox and contribute. i'm sorry that so many people have let you down and certainly understand your desire to simply live out the rest of your life in peace rather than continuing to be disappointed by those claiming to be fighting for your interests.<BR/><BR/>one of the things i'm really worried about with the current push for med-pot laws is that the governemnt will cut off your program -- after all, if there really is no medical value in smoked marijuana, then they can't very well continue to supply you with it.<BR/><BR/>i promise i'll keep pedalling as hard as i can to help set things right again, and i will continue to try to set an example so we can either force the self-proclaimed "leaders" to get their shit together, or (better yet) get the hell out of the way.<BR/><BR/>i've sacrificied literally everything i have (well, had) in life to tackle this job -- and i took the risk because i knew you folks were out there and that the essential work just wasn't being done by the "leaders."<BR/><BR/>they have pretty much ignored me just as they have ignored you -- that was a huge mistake and is unforgivable. it's time to make them sign up for unemployment along with their fascist cohorts on the "other" side.<BR/><BR/>we truly have everything we need -- so let's make it happen!<BR/><BR/>banti-drugwar czarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-87744840052313719182007-07-18T16:41:00.000-05:002007-07-18T16:41:00.000-05:00I agree and can relate to almost everything that h...I agree and can relate to almost everything that has been said within the blog rant and comments! People are waking up to the truth and reallities of the organiztions that are supposed to be working for us ! I have very harsh feelings for MPP and NORML, they ignored my offers for help, and my ideas for change! They gladly accepted the $5 a month that I was donating to them tho. With the money that these orgs have there could have been over a thousand court cases fought and won to defeat the unconstitutional laws against cannabis. We could feel safe right now in our own homes if these orgs were truly working for us the people, they are war profiteers! My apology's go to all of the great people working within these orgs, I hope you will see who you are working for one day sooner rather than later..<BR/><BR/> DrewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-30745360012548080872007-07-18T16:30:00.000-05:002007-07-18T16:30:00.000-05:00An email exchange that includes Kieth Stroup (NORM...An email exchange that includes Kieth Stroup (NORML)<BR/>From: "Rev. Tom Brown" <BR/>To: religiousfreedomnow@hotmail.com<BR/>Subject: NORML helps us NOT !<BR/>Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:38:07 -0500<BR/><BR/><BR/>Greetings to All!<BR/><BR/>Here is an e-mail exchange to and from Keith Stroup of NORML about the religious defense to pot charges. It is so enlightenting. Hope you enjoy and learn who to support.<BR/><BR/>One Love revtombrown<BR/><BR/>PS Keith also screwed us in California in 1971 by refusing to support our initiative to legalize marijuana. Without NORML we got the initiative on the ballot in 1972 and got 36% of the vote in favor. We can only speculate why Keith Stroup and NORML are so obstinate in refusing to support credible answers to pot prohibition, we can only wonder why!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>From: Carl Olsen < carl-olsen@mchsi.com><BR/>Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 09:30:13 -0500<BR/>To: , "'Allen St. Pierre'" <BR/>Subject: Interrogatories to Parties - FRCP 33<BR/><BR/>Hi Keith and Allen,<BR/><BR/>The federal defendants are saying that recognizing a right to use marijuana<BR/>as a sacrament would render the marijuana laws unenforceable. On the other <BR/>hand, they claim I have not established a credible threat of injury, as if<BR/>the marijuana laws would not be enforced if I were to use marijuana as my<BR/>sacrament.<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that the marijuana laws are unenforceable already and I would <BR/>like to send some written interrogatories to the federal defendants asking<BR/>them to admit it. Can you help me with the wording?<BR/><BR/>Carl Olsen<BR/>Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church<BR/><BR/>515-288-5798<BR/><BR/>"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience<BR/>is the most difficult period in one's life."<BR/>~ Dalai Lama<BR/>______________________________<BR/><BR/>From: Keith Stroup [mailto:keith@norml.org] ..:NAMESPACE PREFIX = MAILTO /><BR/>Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:55 AM <BR/>To: Carl Olsen; Allen St. Pierre<BR/>Subject: Re: Interrogatories to Parties - FRCP 33<BR/><BR/>Carl:<BR/><BR/>I'm afraid you are asking the blind to help the blind; I have very little<BR/>experience in drafting pleadings. <BR/><BR/>Also, with so many projects demanding time and attention, this one just does<BR/>not appear worthwhile to me. I cannot see it ever helping anyone, although I<BR/>understand your continuing interest in the matter.<BR/><BR/>Sorry to disappoint, but religious use is not a priority of mine.<BR/>Regards,<BR/><BR/>Keith<BR/><BR/>Keith Stroup, Esq.<BR/>NORML Legal Counsel<BR/>keith@norml.org<BR/>www.norml.org<BR/>______________________________________________<BR/><BR/>From: Carl Olsen <BR/>Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 13:05:55 -0500<BR/>To: 'Keith Stroup' < keith@norml.org>, "'Allen St. Pierre'" <BR/>Cc: "'Rev. Tom Brown'" , 'Jeff Brown'<BR/><BR/>Subject: RE: Interrogatories to Parties - FRCP 33<BR/><BR/>Keith,<BR/><BR/>You've got to be kidding. The government thinks this case could bring <BR/>prohibition to a screeching halt. If I lose, it's my dime. If I win, you<BR/>and everyone else will benefit. But I certainly appreciate you informing me<BR/>of what a closed mind you have. I won't bother you again. <BR/><BR/>Carl<BR/>__________________________________________________<BR/><BR/>From: Keith Stroup [mailto:keith@norml.org]<BR/>Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:38 PM <BR/>To: Carl Olsen; Allen St. Pierre<BR/>Cc: 'Rev. Tom Brown'; 'Jeff Brown'<BR/>Subject: Re: Interrogatories to Parties - FRCP 33<BR/><BR/>Carl:<BR/><BR/>I've noticed all the progress you have made (NOT) with this religious use <BR/>argument over the years. How could I have missed the fear on the part of the<BR/>government.<BR/><BR/>Get a grip on reality.<BR/><BR/>Keith<BR/><BR/>Keith Stroup, Esq.<BR/>NORML Legal Counsel<BR/>keith@norml.org <BR/>www.norml.org<BR/>_______________________________________________<BR/><BR/>From: Amanda C. Feeley [mailto:goatgirl123@gmail.com ]<BR/>Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 4:38 PM<BR/>To: keith@norml.org; allen@norml.org; revtombrown@hotmail.com ; jab@lcia.com;<BR/>iowa@iowamedicalmarijuana.org; carl.olsen@iowamedicalmarijuana.org <BR/>Subject: Fwd: Interrogatories to Parties - FRCP 33<BR/><BR/>Mr. Stroup,<BR/><BR/>Would this be similar to all the progress NORML has made on their arguments<BR/>on this issue over the last 30 years? Med. patients are still getting busted <BR/>by the feds. Casual users are still being jailed. Religious people are still<BR/>being denied their first amendment rights. First amendment rights are<BR/>probably the strongest argument for the repeal of prohibition. <BR/><BR/>If you don't have the time, surely you know someone who might, or who might<BR/>be able to direct Carl in the right direction. Just because religious use is<BR/>not a priority of yours, doesn't mean we can't help each other. <BR/><BR/>We have to stand together or else in another 30 years we will be in the same<BR/>place we are now. Spinning our wheels.<BR/>Do the right thing.<BR/>Amanda C. Feeley<BR/>________________________________________________<BR/><BR/>From: Carl Olsen <BR/>Date: Fri, 25 May 2007<BR/>To: 'Keith Stroup' < keith@norml.org>, "'Allen St. Pierre'" <BR/>Cc: "'Rev. Tom Brown'" , 'Jeff Brown'<BR/><BR/>Subject: RE: Interrogatories to Parties - FRCP 33<BR/><BR/>Dear Keith and Allen,<BR/><BR/>And, I might ask, what was Keith Stroup doing down there in Miami at the<BR/>headquarters of the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church in the 1970s when the <BR/>Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church was throwing away millions of dollars trying to<BR/>defend itself in state and federal court. What could have been the<BR/>attraction?<BR/><BR/>As the Florida state court said long ago:<BR/><BR/>"The Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church is centuries old and has regularly used <BR/>cannabis as its sacrament." Town v. State ex rel. Reno, 877 So.2d 648 (Fla.<BR/>1979).<BR/><BR/>Carl OlsenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-43587834745583161522007-07-18T16:21:00.000-05:002007-07-18T16:21:00.000-05:00You all better think twice about who ya'll are sup...You all better think twice about who ya'll are supporting' and who's salaries you're paying. I don't get paid to fight This fight, so why should they? I don't get funded to have huge partied for what I do, so why should they? It doesn't take money to fight this fight. It takes dedication and passion. Something we all should have in this or we shouldn't be in it. Think about it. These people have many many supporters. I believe Cannabis should have and could have been decriminalized a long time ago. But who would have fat pockets then? No one, so why get decrim when they can get paid to have the best pot around, no worry about getting busted and party it up living the rockstar celebrity life with the celebrities on their right hand? Think about how much money these people raise a year. Now think about the accomplishments they've made in comparison? It's no laughing matter. People are losing money to people who do not have their best interest at heart. I supported the orgs for years. And I can't even get a response from them. Tells me how important my support is to them. I am done with supporting organizations that will not do what is right. If you don't like it maybe you're just not paying attention. I am getting letters left and right from people in support of these orgs that are sounding like they've just been brainwashed by them...They're all generic sounding about how I should be supporting the orgs who want and need my money. This is what I laugh at. These people don't even pay attention to what is the real issues. They just follow these orgs like sheep because.....Because why is what I want to know? Do your research people. Before you give money to anyone research them, research the issues and see what they are really doing to help. Cannabis has been a crime since the 1930's. There have been many groups to come and go since then and not all of them were asking for money. When you find a group who wants no money, nothing but support and dedicated workers, how can you say their just crazy and don't know what they're talking about? Have you not done the research yourself? Read below, and my last two posts, and tell me there is no threat against cannabis. If you do, you are clearly not paying any attention at all and are of no use to the cannabis movement until you can educate yourself on what you are trying to free and the real threats against it. Cannabis is a plant, a part of nature put here by the almighty for us to use. No governments, no laws can stop us from that and they obviously don't stop us. You cannot stop what the almighty created, it's against going against the creator to do that. This nation is founded upon Christianity. So how can the U.S. government, who for the most part claims they are Christians go against God? Because that is exactly what they're doing when outlawing nature. Think about that for a minute....OUTLAWING NATURE? How the hell can you outlaw nature? It's nature. It's not your decision to do that. It's Gods and God wants it here or he wouldn't have created it with so many wonderful purposes including saving the world by reversing greenhouse effect and putting a stop to global warming....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-49539028237187024702007-07-18T16:20:00.000-05:002007-07-18T16:20:00.000-05:00I used to be a NORML member and one of the people ...I used to be a NORML member and one of the people who started a NORML state of Florida chapter in the early to mid nineties, when there was none. <BR/>FUCK NORML! They didn't do shit to help their people back then and they don't give a shit now, unless there is money to be made for them.<BR/>MONEY.....THAT IS ALL THAT THEY CARE ABOUT! <BR/>You don't know how good it is to read your posts, and others who are taking a truly informed and seemingly honest approach to a cause that is dividing far too many people. <BR/>~~~~~One LoveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-40191747587577673832007-07-18T16:18:00.000-05:002007-07-18T16:18:00.000-05:00I am a federal marijuana patient, one of the few l...I am a federal marijuana patient, one of the few left. I wish to keep my name anonymous for safety reasons....<BR/><BR/>Well to start I feel the orgs you mentioned are in the business. They are there to pay salaries and so specific things. Norml to lobby, and mpp to lobby. They are not teaching orgs. I feel the people in each state do the work, and I have been at at least 3 state congresss where the name of either was enough to stop the bill. Having said that ...... I am in favor of people who band together and make small differences till they are big one.<BR/>You are welcome to use what I said do I appreciate not using my name . These people are cut throat involved in making their names. I am no longer prepared to fight them.Now I am worried about just my personal life ,staying warm and eating. I have been wiped out by those who do not value anyone's accomplishment unless they can claim it. An old saying that fits. Never grade a mans performance on hi own opinion. Especially when his salary depends on it. <BR/><BR/>I am old, and sick, and I have been fighting both sides to continue. The worst part is that I watched as certain ones actually back tracked all we had done.<BR/>But when in a fight I do not want any more smart people on my back. They are of little help on your back with a knife to stick in when you ar doing too good. ut mostly I believe these folks just have little sense. and no intention of ever helping the sick. That is the difference between them and you. and they know most have been propagandized to the point that they just follow...<BR/><BR/>No senator or representative gives a damn what the orgs think. Someone from dc or wanting to go there is not my idea of who is changing things state by state, and I do not care what 'they' say.. Nor do your reps think so. You are (the people) Keep on teaching ,as people learn they see who is doing what.. And there is a lot to see..<BR/><BR/>Someone who works as hard raising funds as do the orgs now working us, is not concentrating on the problems of the people enough . Someone might need to do that job. But that should be their job. raising and distributing, not raise and pay salaries to raise some more. <BR/><BR/>For me there is no fight and I have decided I want no more. Too many stabs in the back as well as I am ill (because my meds work so well, most people Think I should look like their vision of death warmed over and addicted to heroin.<BR/><BR/>Watch who is doing alot, spending alot and doing things the way they want and asking others to pay for it. Payment both in cash and Kudos. Just more divisio etc. If I could fight just my enemies I would be glad to Continent with the positioning, wild claims and treachery I encountered in the organized leadership of the orgs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-48304374268763957482007-07-18T16:16:00.000-05:002007-07-18T16:16:00.000-05:00The only way to avoid this undeniable eventual rea...The only way to avoid this undeniable eventual reality is to bring the full bucket of science that proves the web of life in a court of law and in challenging gov's unconstitutional claimed jurisdiction that would and has allowed for the outlawing and or the private ownership of life itself = DNA.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Government has no argument to justify a compelling interest that would override and or overrule the facts of the web of life that are now proved by science.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>The only possible excuses for doing anything less than bringing the full scope of science to bare in the courts of law must be either ignorance, malfeasance, or a sell out to the false reality that props up these unconstitutional laws at the root of their jurisdictional claim and one would only surrender to such over money.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Don't let these orgs screw you and us all out of our birthright of natural inheritance.<BR/><BR/>The science of the web of life says that you and cannabis are undeniably interconnected <BR/><BR/>With everything that ever was or ever will be, that means you are relatives.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Don't let these orgs separate you from who and what you are in order to play nice with a system that is failing to the point of self destruction.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Please don't be fooled by what you read coming from these orgs described as good news or progress because what they are doing is akin to a wolf dressed in sheep's clothing regardless if they know or not.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>You are the only thing that can redirect the direction of these orgs into doing the right thing.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Its as easy as sending them emails or calling them and letting them know you wont stand for them doing anything less than the right thing at this critical time in human history.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Tell them that "The overwhelming bulk of scientific evidence supports" the fact of the existence of the web of life and that if that science is combined with the 9th amendment to the bill of rights and brought to bare in federal court there will be no more outlawing of nature or gene splicing it into a privately owned Frankenstein slaves for profit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-43199635103485526822007-07-07T11:35:00.000-05:002007-07-07T11:35:00.000-05:00sorry taylor, but i'm not waiting another forty ye...sorry taylor, but i'm not waiting another forty years hoping that some day our government will stop using military force to subdue plant smokers.<BR/><BR/>the "231 years" refers to the declaration of independence -- so how much longer do you think it should take to figure out what "equal" means? <BR/><BR/>p.s. cocaine, meth and a lot of other drugs are already "legal" -- for medical purposes. so how is med-pot going to do anything to help those 750,000 people arrested for pot every year?<BR/><BR/>the question to pose to the american people is not whether or not they favor recreational marijuana use -- the question to ask them is why they still support the carnage of our 100+ year drug war. ask them how, as "equals," we are empowered to punish people for doing things to themselves. this isn't about drugs, my friend -- you need to understand that.<BR/><BR/>yes, the way forward is to educate them -- i call it drugwar rehab, and i've been <B><I>busting my ass</I></B> for the past seven years making it as easy as possible for anyone who cares to help to find the ammo and arguments they need to get the job done. it's work that the "leaders" someone never figured out needed to be done. but how the hell can you spend decades arguing back and forth without ever bothering to collect all the data and put it in one place?<BR/><BR/>go visit my main website http://www.briancbennett.com<BR/><BR/>and here's an easy way to find all the ammo:<BR/><BR/>http://www.briancbennett.com/pagelist.htm<BR/><BR/>so what are <B>you</B> doing help?<BR/><BR/>banti-drugwar czarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-69850171775594289602007-07-07T11:21:00.000-05:002007-07-07T11:21:00.000-05:00Taylor left this comment and I accidentally clobbe...Taylor left this comment and I accidentally clobbered it -- sorry.<BR/><BR/>[start]<BR/>"one final note: in 1974 there were 24 states with medical marijuana laws. they all thought that was the way to do it back then too. so now they want me to praise them because now there are 12? horseshit!"<BR/><BR/>Those medical marijuana laws never went into effect because they used the word "prescription" rather than recommend, which has the legal implication that the drug must be approved by the FDA. Many of those state programs required the Federal government to supply the marijuana to the state, which the Feds refused to do. 12 states have passed effective medical marijuana laws compared to ZERO before. That is progress. I explained in my other post with a link to my blog why medical marijuana is an important issue for everyone, including people that want the drug war to end all together.<BR/><BR/>You say it's the american thing to do to legalize all drugs. I have to ask what you mean by that. If you are referring to body ownership and unalienable rights, not every American believes in those things. Some have accepted other ethical theories besides rights theories. I support drug regulation/taxation based on utilitarian grounds.<BR/><BR/>"don't know about you but i think 231 years is more than enough time to figure that out."<BR/><BR/>Drugs such as cocaine etc.. were legal once upon a time. 231 years is an exaggeration.<BR/><BR/>"<BR/>there is only one solution -- and mpp doesn't have it. indeed, they tend to hold the recreational smokers at arms length too -- if you haven't figured that out yet, do some more reading."<BR/><BR/>What do you mean by this? How is spending millions of dollars on legalizing marijuana for recreational purposes holding marijuana users at arms' length?<BR/><BR/>"any money you think you should send to mpp, i'd advise you to send to LEAP instead. they get standing ovations by telling people to end the drug war and make all the drugs legal."<BR/><BR/>I like LEAP, but I believe if anything is going to happen for the better, marijuana will come first.<BR/><BR/>"the public is more than ready -- and the rotarians, lion's clubs, vfw's etc that LEAP is telling their message to are the very people that mpp and the other hop-a-long cheese eating surrender monkeys would have us believe would "never support it.""<BR/><BR/>The public is not more than ready. Look at public polling. A 2005 gallop poll showed only 36% of Americans support marijuana legalization. Support for drug legalization overall would amount to about 1/5 of the population. How is it that everyone's ready again? We have to educate the public. How do you plan on doing that?<BR/>[end]anti-drugwar czarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-91356674153995669822007-07-06T00:56:00.000-05:002007-07-06T00:56:00.000-05:00hi taylor,thanks for weighing in. yeah, i made the...hi taylor,<BR/><BR/>thanks for weighing in. yeah, i made the mistake of sending them money too. then i got better.<BR/><BR/>sorry my friend, but the way to change the public perception of marijuana and its users involves standing up and demanding that society stop punishing people for doing things to themselves.<BR/><BR/>as to what the public is "ready" for -- more than anything else they are ready to be challenged to do the right thing and leave each other the fuck alone. it's the "american" thing to do, and about time for americans to start acting like we believe all that bullshit we claim to be about.<BR/><BR/>i don't know about you but i think 231 years is more than enough time to figure that out. instead of asking people if they're "ready" to "allow" people to use pot, try asking them why they support using military force, automatic weapons fire and jail against plant smokers. context is king.<BR/><BR/>i'm tired of waiting, i'm tired of idiotic half-assed measures, and i throw my hat in with the growing chorus of voices who are calling for the complete end of prohibition. nothing else is acceptable.<BR/><BR/>on that i will not budge -- everyone is to be treated as an equal. puinishing people for what they do to themselves is tyranny. and i've sworn to defend us against that.<BR/><BR/>making marijuana legal for medical purposes does <B>absolutely nothing</B> to alter the fate of the casual pot smoker or, more importantly, the carnage of the drug war.<BR/><BR/>there is only one solution -- and mpp doesn't have it. indeed, they tend to hold the recreational smokers at arms length too -- if you haven't figured that out yet, do some more reading.<BR/><BR/>one final note: in 1974 there were 24 states with medical marijuana laws. they all thought that was the way to do it back then too. so now they want me to praise them because now there are 12? horseshit!<BR/><BR/>any money you think you should send to mpp, i'd advise you to send to <A HREF="http://www.leap.cc" REL="nofollow">LEAP</A> instead. they get standing ovations by telling people to end the drug war and make all the drugs legal.<BR/><BR/>the public is more than ready -- and the rotarians, lion's clubs, vfw's etc that LEAP is telling their message to are the very people that mpp and the other hop-a-long cheese eating surrender monkeys would have us believe would "never support it." <BR/><BR/>i call it the way i see it -- and mpp is a self-aggrandizing band of idiots wasting our limited and valuable resources.<BR/><BR/><BR/>banti-drugwar czarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260541245652982367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-83250046319045603042007-07-05T20:39:00.000-05:002007-07-05T20:39:00.000-05:00I’m going to briefly defend the MPP. I don’t work ...I’m going to briefly defend the MPP. I don’t work for them but I am a dues paying member because I believe they are actually doing something. <BR/><BR/>You make the claim that they haven’t done anything for marijuana users based on the sole figure that arrests have gone up. Just because arrests go up year after year does not mean the MPP has not done anything for marijuana users. You are using a single measurement, but you are not looking at it from a long-term perspective. Medical marijuana has a purpose behind it. It helps the sick get their medicine, and it also shows the public that a sick person can use marijuana and tolerate it. This gives a more realistic image as to what marijuana really is and counters the image that the government portrays marijuana as. If it was not for the medical marijuana issue, the only media attention that marijuana would receive is “Joe is busted with 20 pounds of marijuana going across the Mexican border.” It would be nothing but negative news. I say this not to credit MPP for all the medical marijuana passes, but to emphasize that them focusing on it isn’t all bad. Medical marijuana has also generated studies on the positive effects that marijuana can have and protected sick people from state and local arrest in 12+ states.<BR/><BR/> MPP lobbied in Vermont, Hawaii, and Rhode Island and got state officials to pass their laws. They passed a medical marijuana ballot initiative in Montana as well. You make the point they pick small states, but that’s for a reason. It costs MORE money to run a campaign in a largely populated state since you have to collect MORE signatures and have to pay MORE to reach all the people through ads. Smaller states are cheaper to run campaigns for, and since people like yourself and others are giving up on the MPP, they have less money to work with than they would if you continued to give them a small portion of your income. MPP provided funding for the litigation the kept marijuana legal for adults in Alaska. That’s progress. MPP spent around a mil to pass Nevada legalization for adults. It failed with 44% of the vote and they intend to try again after public perception has changed some more, yet you fault them for more effectively allocating their money to help sick people. <BR/><BR/>You talk about legalizing all drugs; well every ballot initiative of recreational marijuana legalization for adults has failed because the public doesn’t want it. Take a guess how legalizing harder drugs would go. Even in western states, the public simply does not want it. The only way to change that is to change public perception to more accurately reflect what the substance is. What is your proposal to do that? You think urging people on this blog is going to make everyone that uses marijuana to sacrifice their future careers and their future of their families? <BR/><BR/>I understand your frustration, but I think you are being counter productive. Our legalization organizations can’t get much done because they don’t have any money. You fault them for not having any money and implicitly urge people not do give them money. It’s a vicious circle.Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12229025012229971535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11252227.post-52103678081140741342007-06-22T11:46:00.000-05:002007-06-22T11:46:00.000-05:00an information war... yes, that's exactly what thi...an information war... yes, that's exactly what this is. we live in an ostensibly free country, because most people in it believe they are free.DaveThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16089110256513437793noreply@blogger.com